The position of the president of the united states is one of immense power. It is the power to represent a nation of over 300 million people. The power to veto bills of legislature. The power to order troops. The power to be heard by every single person in the nation. So how did the colossal power end up in the hands of a moron such as George W. Bush? Is this blog going to be a Bush bash? a bit but more importantly it is about the effect of having such an idiot be president.
For me, my entire view of the presidency has been of Bush. Bush was elected in 2001. I was 9 when that happened. I had no idea of politics or Clinton when I was 9. So before Obama was elected last year, I had never been aware of another president. This means a huge amount. My personal respect for the position is much less than that of someone who has in their life had educated and intelligent people lead the nation.
More than just Bush's intellect (or lack of it), the hatred of him (especially in the bay area) really has a lasting effect I think. A lot of people disprove of Obama. However, a lot of people aprove of him as well. To me it is wierd to think that people whom I respect or agree with at times praise the president. It feels wierd when I agree with Obama because I am so used to hating the person who holds that office.
I hope my natural feelings towards the position change overtime but I do not know if they will. I think that Bush did to the generation of adolescents during his office as Nixon did to the adolescents during his presidency. Before Nixon, it was not uncommon to have complete faith in the president. However after his corruption, many people became more cautious and cynic about what comes out of the president. It is different though. While one can call Nixon a crook (despite any speeches he may have given denying it), no one can call him stupid or unintelligent. I think that while Nixon degraded the trust of the president, Bush degraded the respect of the president.
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Mark, that was a really interesting post. It sounded very McGlashan. Haha. I really like what you said at the end, about how the respect of the president has greatly deteriorated since the Bush presidency. Before, I feel (since I was only 9 like you) that the president was more highly regarded. In the present, where freedom of speech is a civil liberty so intensely protected, I feel that criticizing, or just flat out insulting the president is so common and routine. It even seems as if treason (or the threat) has become a joke too.
-Sandy Chen
I think that all of you have to think about how views of the presidency vary geographically. While i myself hated bush, i think that had you been brought up in a community of "uptight unintelligent southern-minded type conservatives"-Commissar Silton, you would have had a different perception of this topic because while people who approved of him may have disagreed with him at times, they did not openly insult him and his position in passing as if it were expected of them. This area is very liberal and anti-bush, and you cannot make statements about the nations perception of the presidency without having a complete knowledge of it.
Obama isn't exactly helping people respect the president when he is making comments about how stupid actors are. He also has far too much influence to be making opinion comments on something completely outside his area of expertise.
-Ilan Seid-Green
Respect for the presidency has always been fluctuating. I'm sure that one day, a president will emerge whom you admire.
Herbert Hoover's laissez-faire policies during the depression made everyone think the government wasn't reliable. The oval office was later redeemed by FDR.
Jimmy Carter was atrociously unpopular because he didn't do much of anything right other than the Camp David accords.
Oh well, what can we expect out of a peanut farmer as a president?
Ronald Reagan's popularity redeemed Carter's incompetenty as president.
These are just a few examples from the top of my head; I'm sure there's more.
Do you see sort of a fluctuating trend?
Someone will come and save the executive office from perpetual distrust and disrespect.
Besides, it's still Obama's first year in office. Don't make too many premature judgements.
"Bush was elected in 2001."
Incorrect. He was elected in 2000, but inaugurated in 2001.
"It even seems as if treason (or the threat) has become a joke too."
Nope, it isn't treated as a joke.
Yell, "I have a bomb" in the airport, and tell me what would happen to you.
Our sense of suspicion of treason has extended so far that there is prejudice against muslims, particularly those who wear turbans or veils in public.
"September 17, 2009 5:58 AM"
Woah, Sandy, Mr.Silton has to be flattered that you woke up that early and even considered to post here at that time.
You posted about two hours after I began to sleep, at 4:00.
Really?
A lot of you thought that the president was revered when you guys were at school during his first term?
I'm going to try to recover your memories.
Surely, you must have heard opposition to the war when he announced it.
I remember going home after school during 4th or 5th grade and watching the news briefly on tv. I wasn't really interested in the news; I just wanted to see images and videos of tanks and soldiers. I also saw angry protesters.
I got mad at the anti-war protesters at the time not only because I felt they were insulting the president, but because I thought they opposed the war against the terrorists who caused 9/11.
I believe that Obama is a great president and we are all happy to have him here. Bush, yes her was a disaster and is hated among people ..especially in the bay area. I hope Obama helps us through these hard times ( wich he will), and we will be ok. I love how he went to elementry schools to discuss education is important and i loved how he went on a radio broadcast to interact and to hear peoples opinions on the health care issue. He is really open and interacts with all citizens, and that is what we need.
"I believe that Obama is a great president and we are all happy to have him here. Bush, yes her was a disaster and is hated among people ..especially in the bay area. I hope Obama helps us through these hard times ( wich he will), and we will be ok. I love how he went to elementry schools to discuss education is important and i loved how he went on a radio broadcast to interact and to hear peoples opinions on the health care issue. He is really open and interacts with all citizens, and that is what we need."
Reading this it's incredibly hard to resist the urge to simply troll all over this entire thread. I'll start by saying please reread your post, several of your sentences seems to ramble off into uninteligible nonsense. "Bush, yes her was a disaster..." Are you implying Bush is a woman because I don't even understand what you were trying to say so I can't begin to understand what word is supposed to be there. Your blind faith towards Obama is frightening and your blind hatred of Bush is some grade A indoctrination.
Mark your attempt to sound civil fails and I'm sorry but you sound very petty. Your opinions are very very polarized and that perhaps has a lot to do with where you have grown up. Your bias seeps through your writing and it's difficult to read. Your image of the president is largely the image you retain from his speeches and his conservative stances on issues. Before we get further and I'm attacked for clearly being brainwashed as a child it's important to understand my dad is a Bush hating, anti-war, uber liberal. My grandfather on the other hand was a staunch republican of 30 years who belives in republican thinking and their ideals. They both had completely different viewpoints and I'm glad I got to experience both as it allowed me to make my own choice without their influence telling me what to think.
Now his speeches, my classmates favorite pasttime is to mock the president's accent or his misspeakings. All I can express is my downright perplexity when the same classmates who consider themselves intellectuals proceed to mock someone for an accent or misspeaking. It's atrocious. Since moving from Denmark I've endured the exact same thing, I have a very pronounced accent when saying the th sound and was mocked for years about it, it continues today. Luckily I got over it around 5th grade after nearly being suspended and realizing that if that was the best someone could come up with they aren't worth my time. I now insinuate the same thing about people who would mock someone for their way of talking, you should be ashamed.
Now when Bush misspeaks it's the funniest thing on television apparently. Nothing funnier than when someone messes up during public speaking, the ironic part of course being if you were to do that in school you would immediately be sent to the office and probably get detention. Unfortunately the same decency does not carry over to the president. This decency is not political but plain human decency, some people simply do not like public speaking as much as others, obviously Obama is a pro and Bush was not. Any point you make about what an idiot Bush was for becoming president without being great at public speaking is awful as a tiny tiny percent of the president's time is spent actually making speeches. While important being president does not hinge on your public speaking skill and thank goodness for that.
Now when you are arguing Bush's policies that's another issue. Here while you may not be right you are definitely entitled to speak your opinions to anyone who will listen and it is encouraged.
However your perceptions of Bush's intelligence is horribly off, you've never met the man, your views are based solely on how you see him during his speeches. I'd venture that most if not all people who dislike Bush dislike him more as a person and public figure than their issues with his policies. Anyway I'm merely trying to stop the pretty awful hate mongering thread that is going on here and to insert some logic.
If your worried about the president as a status symbol for our country you need not worry, change is here and Lord Obama is at the reins, time to find a new pinata democrats.
How are we supposed to judge someone if not by their actions? This is, I can say with great certainty, the only way to judge a person. There is no "intentions" police force so that means that first impressions and all that jazz matters.
I agree that badgering someone for how they speak is ludicrous, but they are still responsible for what they say. There is no way for most people to know the president close up and personal and so we can only know him by what he does/ says. I won't go into the blame game surrounding the Bush administration and where it took the country but you get my point. Even so, people are horribly biased (IRONY) so warped (media) points of view are a fact of unfair life that we cannot get upset about because points of view do not affect the facts :).
Wow, I don't think I could agree with Anders anymore than now (perhaps that will change in the future). That was quite beautifully laid out.
Although, don't assume that Sabina thinks Bush is a bad president because she thinks his speeches appear foolish.
I too, found Sabina's post to be an open invitation to be used as an example of somewhat undigested thought. Anders just reached her first, and made a response better than I could. His explanation of how people hate a president based on his speech hit the mark.
"'Bush, yes her was a disaster...' Are you implying Bush is a woman because I don't even understand what you were trying to say so I can't begin to understand what word is supposed to be there."
She meant to say he there.
Wow I feel like I need to facepalm myself there, I clearly read too much into that to not recognize they were going for he, my bad. I'd still like to see a little more time put into people's posts though tying back into what Ilan just posted about proper grammar etc.
Yeah Will I agree we have to look at a person's actions to fully understand them and I propose we do that more than by their words. Their words might be how they lay out their plans but if we really want to judge a president we would have a person who has no idea what the president looks like, talks like, or his views. We would then have them analyze their term in office and the impact on the country 5 years after they have left office. Looking at all the passed bills, any declarations of war, peace treaties, pretty much all relevant documents. That should be the way we determine whether the presidency was a success, failure, or something in between.
Thanks Kevin for the compliment, I think I'm gonna leave Ilan's original post alone, has stretched too long and I feel it's merely us bantering haha.
Anders: first off I do not at any point assert myself unbiased when it comes to bush. I dislike the man and I acknowledge that. As for judging him on his speech. I do not think a comparison of his speech problems has anything to do with the problems you experienced. You came from a different country with a different primary language. Bush did not. I retain the full right to judge someone by how he presents and represents himself. There are exceptions to this including language barriers, disabilities, lack of an opportunity to receive an education, etc. I cannot think of a single reason to reserve judgment on Bush. He has no speaking impediments. His first language is English and he received an education from a top ivy league school.
Furthermore, one of the president's biggest roles is one of diplomacy and negotiating. If one cannot speak clearly and coherently than he has no right to hold the position.
Wow alright, while not being unbiased in your posts it sure helps to atleast not shove your hate down the readers throat, you don't even give the reader a chance to make an opinion, you force feed it to them.
Accents do not originate from countries of origin they originate from the community you are raised in. If I came to America and lived in Texas I would probably have had a very rich southern accent as opposed to how I speak now. I thought that point would be obvious. You can't insult someone for their way of speaking because you come off looking silly and shallow, instead focus on the man's policies. You realize he learned to speak this way from when he was a baby right?
His education has no impact on his accent.
Negotiating with diplomats and presidents of other countries is completely different than making a speech to a country. Many many people can speak perfectly fine when they are with just a few people sitting around a table, those same people have a different set of issues when adressing large gatherings of people, again an obvious point. Just because it is important for the president to talk to people doesn't make his public speaking skills 50% of why he should be president.
Your judging the man not on his policies but how your hear his words during the State of the Union and find his accent perhaps funny or it seems to suggest to you a man of lesser intellect. Either way I'm astounded you would defend this position at all, I'd much rather you write a coherent post about what you didn't like about his presidency and work from there.
Like Mark, I did not follow politics closely during Bush's terms, do not know the good things that he did in office (and yes, I am sure that there are at least a few), and am largely influenced by the anti-Bush sentiments of my environment.
In the Bay Area, Bush was never popular, and unless something drastic happens, he never will be. That being said, there are those out there who think Bush was a great president (if you don't believe me, go to Texas). But for me, Bush was nowhere near the George Washington-esque image I had in my eight year-old mind of what a president should be.
Fast-forward to 2008.
When Obama was campaigning, a certain "Obama fever" seemed to take over the Bay Area (and many Aragon students). The contagiousness of the "Fever" turned out to be both good and bad. For some, politics became much more interesting, and as a result, they became more involved. For others, it was a trend, and they jumped on the Obama bandwagon as soon as it became the "in" things to do. The result, it seemed, was that Obama became painted as a "savior," the George Washington, Abraham Lincoln, or FDR we were all desperately looking for to help the nation after Bush's terms.
For me, however, Obama has not lived up to either the "savior" image or my expectations of him, which were admittedly high largely due to his motivational and inspiring rhetoric. After taking office, Obama did not handle the economic crisis as I had hoped he would (eg. his blaming of Corporate America for the crisis and forcing bailout money on certain banks against their will). Basically, he lied as it seems all politicians do in order to gain votes. For some reason though, I perhaps unfairly expected more of him. Nevertheless, Obama still has a lot of time left in his term, and I hope that he earns my respect and helps our aching nation.
Although Bush may have degraded the respect of himself, I believe that the respect for the presidency changes with each president; it should not be given to anyone just because he (and maybe one day "she") is the president. For me, each person in office must gain true respect individually rather than relying on the "respect" of the office.
Thanks for posting this Mark-- I found it to be very interesting and relevant.
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