I want to ask you all, meaning i want responses, do you think that given a perfect meritocracy cannot happen, we should be moving towards merit based success, or either aristocracy or politically-correct success.
Let me explain myself, I am by no means a white supremacist, a racist, or any type of elitist, but, i think that affirmative action is the biggest load of garbage political correctness (aka the government trying to control you all by guiding and restricting your freedom of speech) has ever come out with.
Lets say a college is accepting its final round of students. It has accepted without much discrimination based on mostly merit so far but now comes the percentage inflation week. Here at this (basically any) admissions office, during percentage inflation week we will try to make up for the vast number of white applicants who deserved to get in outnumbering the number of ethnic minority applicants who deserved to get in. In essence, we will take any ethnic applicant who is equal to or bearably lower in standard than those applicants thus far and let them in with no questions asked because we need 2% this ethnicity, 6% that ethnicity, and if 4 of the 6% did not deserve to get in at all, well who cares? maybe we'll consider bumping it down to 5.9% for this year and then 6.1% the next.
Also i would like to differentiate between colleges looking into background and looking into racial background. It is more difficult to get far from a lower position, and therefore, more merit should be awarded to the mexican-american who applies from a poverty stricken background than to the pretty white boy who was nursed in a seperate 3 story house in the backyard just waiting for him to grow up and inherit it. However, this is not racial, the poverty stricken student gets more merit because of being poverty stricken and in a more difficult starting position, not for being mexican-american.
This same garbage happens in workplaces everywhere, and is accepted. Because if anyone disagrees with it, and they are a white male, then as commissar says, its just their white supremacy complex showing. If they are not a white male, well....then that's just their opinion and you cant do anything about it being wrong can you?
As a matter of fact, that's my opinion, and i'm a conservative white male. And i believe in COLORBLINDNESS, where race doesnt matter at all, as if you are blind to it, whereas merit does matter.
If you think that affirmative action is good, i urge you to look into your liberal values of equality and justice and tell me if its fair that you can get something based on the color of your skin in this country. This is supposed to be the land of opportunity, not the land of political correctness, and reverse racism.
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Well I bealive that this is a true statement that people should not be looked at for there race. But In these times now I bealive that the lesser race is white. The opertunity for them to apply to any colledge or school or to get the right job is much lower for them and for someone of a different race it higher.With the way the public is now in atleast the states with high concentrated population people are acccepting of everyone not just because of race but what they can offer to the school or work place. And if some people get accepted into a school because of there race then so be it we have no real control and like you said its a low percentage.
I fully agree with your comment regarding affirmative action. Colleges attempting to "diversify" their campus should not simply pick people based on their race. If someone is completely qualified for admission then that person deserves to be accepted. Every person in the world comes from different circumstances created by various factors such as religion, hobbies, motivations, etc. That in itself brings diversity to the campus as it shapes every person's character differently. Race has no bearing towards the way one acts.
Furthermore, I agree with your statement regarding the unfair stereotypes to white people. I feel like over the years, the white race has garnered some negative attention due to their dominance in America. Once again, race has no bearing on character whatsoever, and for every white person deemed a "supremacist" or a "racist", I bet there is someone of another race equally as boastful and arrogant regarding their race. America really needs to start to be color blind and change the way it views all races.
However, when you talk about admission based on merit, I find your argument a little one sided. It is true that colleges can be unjust at times when they pick people solely based on background. However, how can a person who has lived in poverty all their life finally get out of poverty and thrive in the real world if they don't receive any help? Sometimes, people are in unfortunate and devastating circumstances and are in desperate need of some help. If they don't receive help from a college or an employer, this vicious cycle of people living in desolation will only continue.
-Michael Chan
rac•ism
2 : racial prejudice or discrimination
dis•crim•i•na•tion
3 a : the act, practice, or an instance of discriminating categorically rather than individually
Why it is done does not matter...
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/racism
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/discrimination
Thanks William and Thanks Michael!
By the way, as for my arguement on that point, let me clarify,
Background should have merit awarded. When someone living in poverty for their whole lives is compared to a similar student not subjected to such difficulty, the student that overcame more adverse times should definately be awarded more merit and thus, should be accepted over the latter. However, some, not me, who would say that racial minorities are more often seen in such impoverished conditions and thus can be awarded more merit for their minority status, are wrong. I dont care if you're white, african american, indian, asian, mexican, middle eastern etc. you should all be treated equally.
Although I mostly agree with Victor's point that background should be merit based.. I do not agree that the practice of affirmative action especially in colleges should be terminated just YET. Since we live in a society (California!) in which people are more tolerant (I hope) of other races than other states in America, we tend to want to believe that the rest of America works that way but it doesn't. With more diverse groups in colleges (even if affirmative action is racism in a sense) I believe that these more diverse universities will lead to less racism later on due to more frequent interactions with other races.(yes, students have cliques but we still converse with other races ;) Especially on the east coast, there are some colleges where the majority are still white. On your comment about "2% of this race x% of that" I believe that universities should indeed change this. In fact, I am sure that the UCs now are more orientated towards our personal essays more than the color of our skin. Even in the work force, racism and sexism persists. I'd like to think that there was a way to for others to accept people because of what they can offer but its nothing like that outside of our smug little district.
"I am sure that the UCs now are more orientated towards our personal essays more than the color of our skin"
I understand what you're saying, Lily (I think Prop. 209 prohibits public institutions from considering, race, ethnicity, or sex). However, if one's personal statement describes or emphasizes one's heritage, that could affect the opinion of whoever reads the personal statement–maybe that's inadvertent "affirmative action." But inadvertent "affirmative action" can take merit into account. One's background can have a profound impact on one's life or perspective. Admissions officers/prospective employers should respect an individual's ability (which is something an individual can do on his or her own...merit?) to turn background into a new perspective or something else to offer. It's what an individual has made of his or her background, not the background itself, that should count.
-Esther A
I had to think for a while before leaving a comment to consider what everyone had said; I totally agreed that opportunities should solely be offered to whoever has gone through the most hardships to achieve their goals. However, after reading Lily's comment my thoughts kind of changed. I was only thinking about California and was not considering states that had a majority of a certain race (whatever that may be). For example, my father is from South Dakota (a state that was once predominant by whites and maybe still is). But after going there every summer I have seen more and more diverse people such as Asians and Hispanis coming into the state. If this trend keeps up, then maybe affirmative action is the answer.I also agree that mingling with other races is an important and beneficial factor to a school community so...why not just put affirmative action into action?...You get the chance to learn more about different backgrounds as well as teaching others about yours!
-Emily Niemann :D
why not put affirmative action into place?
because if someone DESERVES the first spot, 4005th spot, or the last spot in a college admissions roster, they should get in, because they DESERVE TO, not because they are of an ethnic minority and there are already tons of white people in the school. MERIT based admission, not affirmative action = EQUALITY, if you dont believe in equality, then fine, be my guest... i was just under the assumption that equality was one belief i held in common with you guys, and i dont mean to come off as aggressive. the caps letters indicate a fluctuation in my voice, to express emphasis.
We do believe in equality; however, the world isn't fair. Of course if someone deserves in it then it is in the best interest of the college to let them take that spot. Who is to say who deserves what though? Someone may have the opportunities to do more in their community, spend more time on their homework/studying, etc. My earlier post summarizes the point that Emily was simply giving an example for. In an effort to "get rid of" Affirmative Action, we must first implement it. Think about it. =]
While I agree fully with Victor and have some opinions on the topic I don't much want to get into because Victor layed it out so well however this caught my eye.
"Since we live in a society (California!) in which people are more tolerant (I hope) of other races than other states in America, we tend to want to believe that the rest of America works that way but it doesn't."
I find it hillarious and ironic that in the same line about praising Californians for being open minded you slam other states for being close minded, most of them I'm willing to bet you've never even been to. While stereotypes are incredibly funny when they come true in general it's best to treat them as humorous and not actually take them seriously.
Hint: You have no clue how tolerant people in other states are because you know little of their way of life or their culture. Just like other states assume all Californians live on the beach and go surfing every day just because we see some nutjob racist in a certain state it's horribly unfair to label that state anything based on that person's actions.
Actually, the sad thing is that stereotypes are true for the most part or else they would not exist; this is why they are so dangerous. In a case like this I think that to say that California is relatively more tolerant than other states is a valid point because the general reputations of states are reliable enough. If not, then we should not say anything on the subject and, to avoid any discrepancy, interview each person in America individually and ask them how racially tolerant they are.
Just to clarify, I was only saying in general that on the west coast.. there is more diversity (percentage wise) thus there is more opporitunity for people to understand each other. You are right that I have not been to that many states in America. I have only visited the coastal states. (east & west)I was not saying that other states are more close minded nor was I praising California. Its true that people can be more tolerant in other places. =]
Stereotypes are not at all always based in fact but are nearly always based in perception. If I look at certain states take for example Illinois where, "4 out of the last 8 Illinois governors have gone to jail, so remember if you become governor of Illinois you have a higher chance of going to jail than if you commit murder." Now that's actual fact so a perhaps somewhat real stereotype would have to do with corruption in Illinois. Nope, instead stereotypes spring up from rumor and crazy nutjobs. Stereotypes don't have to be true in order to exist in fact they normally exist because they are false and are created in order to hurt some race, cause, state, government, etc.
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