Over the past month, critics of Joe Rogan’s podcast have grown significantly as the pandemic has dragged on and is nearing the beginning of its third year. “The Joe Rogan Experience” is the most popular podcast in the entire world and has been the focus of many critics for its misinformation regarding COVID-19. In December, Rogan hosted Dr. Robert Malone, an early researcher of mRNA for COVID-19 vaccines, who now criticizes the vaccines. Malone falsely claimed that the vaccine puts people who have already had COVID-19 at risk. As a result, critics have called for Spotify to prevent the continued spread of misinformation. However, CEO Daniel Ek asserted that Spotify would remain committed to free speech and not take on the responsibility of censorship. Rogan’s podcast is exclusively available on Spotify, who purchased the rights to it in 2020 for over $100 million, and serves as a platform for countless podcasters and musicians.
Last week, in response to Spotify’s refusal to take action against Rogan, musicians Neil Young and Joni Mitchell asked to have their music removed from the platform. Other musicians and podcasters have followed Young and Mitchell, prompting Spotify to add a content advisory to any podcast content that discusses pandemic-related topics. Although Spotify’s business is based on subscriptions and will likely not see many subscribers cancel over the controversy, its stock dropped over 20% on Wednesday as a result of its vulnerability.
Podcasts in general have a unique relationship with their audiences that promote trust through personable hosts and interesting discussion topics. However, this becomes an issue when misinformation is involved and people have a stronger belief in the content that they consume. It can also be difficult to filter the information in podcasts because of its audio format and the amount of content involved. For example, one episode of Rogan’s podcast can last for over 3 hours, meaning that there is a large amount of information and topics that are discussed. Ultimately, Spotify is in a difficult situation when considering its commitment to Rogan, the idea of free speech, and the issue of misinformation. No matter what will eventually happen with Spotify and Joe Rogan, the complicated relationship between content creators, platforms, and protection from misinformation will remain.
Questions:
Do you or anyone you know listen to Rogan’s podcast and if so what is your perspective on his content and ideas?
Is it the job of Spotify or other content platforms to protect misinformation, or is that the responsibility of content creators?
What should the government do to regulate misinformation and how does the first amendment factor into that ability?
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/31/technology/joe-rogan-spotify-controversy.html
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/02/media/joe-rogan-spotify-earnings/index.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60239263
https://www.npr.org/2022/01/21/1074442185/joe-rogan-doctor-covid-podcast-spotify-misinformation
4 comments:
I have seen clips of Rogan's podcast and heard it mentioned in passing but I'm not an active listener. From what I've seen, it's basically just Rogan and his guest discussing a ton of random topics and messing around. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone to view the podcast as a source of information, although Rogan does have the occasional intellectual guest appearance like Elon Musk.
I think any company that allows for people to post content that's available to the general public should be responsible for protecting against misinformation. I think it's kind of illogical to rely on creators to filter their speech because if they themselves don't feel like it, it won't happen. Therefore, I think Spotify should take responsibility for handling the content being put on its platform.
Unfortunately, I think it would be close to impossible for the government to monitor every single citizen to ensure that misinformation isn't being spread, especially since there are infinite topics that could be discussed. At the same time, this raises the question of what can be considered misinformation given context and the knowledge of the perpetrator. Similarly, I expect many would debate over whether or not certain cases could be considered a violation of constitutional rights. One idea (although very complex to develop and difficult to carry out on a large-scale) is to create a software program that detects key words/phrases on all formats of media (video, text, image) and flags it as potential misinformation. Instagram already has something similar on their platform regarding posts about COVID-19. Obviously, the program would need to be very refined and accurate to prevent potential violation of the first amendment by censoring or flagging something that isn't misinformation.
I listen to Joe Rogan's podcast occasionally, but usually through videos on his youtube channel (it's strange that the NYT article indicates that he no longer has a presence on YouTube, but his channel still uploads plenty of videos). I tend to watch clips of him discussing hot topics with people like Elon Musk or Jordan Peterson - really out of curiosity rather than trying to find reliable information. Although, my "perspective" on his ideas are that he is an extremely liberal guy, EXCEPT when it comes to vaccines, in which he is neither liberal nor conservative. I suppose he is independent on the matter in the way that he promotes unsubstantiated, unconventional methods of preventing Covid symptoms. It's funny that he is now portrayed as some hero of the right, when in fact he has always been a democrat and has mentioned he would have voted for Bernie if he went against Trump in 2020 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ve7ccl3YrHU).
Now, I disagree with his stance on Covid-19 and the vaccines, but I do appreciate his willingness to talk with people outside of the "woke" arena (i.e. Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Elon Musk, etc.). It's ironic that people are trying to censor his content because he has interviewed and given a voice to a wide variety of people, both on the far left and far right. Do I think it's an ill-spirited movement? No, but I do think it's a waste of time and energy. Most Americans have made up their minds about the vaccines, and realistically, most mindsets won't change after two years of the pandemic.
To the second question, it is not the job of Spotify nor content creators to protect misinformation. If they want to, good on them, but it is not a necessity. Really, it is the responsibility of the consumer to choose whether he/she wants to listen to that content. People can make an educated decision to listen to something, and if they aren't educated... well too bad. The reality is, misinformation is spread all the time on social media. I applaud many social media platforms' strides to flag misinformation and ban those who constantly spew out falsehoods (cough cough Trump), but it is wholly unnecessary and inconsistent with our first amendment rights. Will getting rid of Rogan's covid lies help America's culture and mindsets around vaccines? Probably not, but I suppose it's worth a shot.
By the way, it's hilarious that Neil Young and Joni Mitchell are leading this movement. Most of their fans are off the grid, but I guess it had to start somewhere...
However, children are the most susceptible to misinformation, so it does worry me that future generations might have a warped perspective on the safety and effectiveness of vaccines. In the words of Neil Young (and CSN),
"Teach your children well
Their father's hell
Did slowly go by
And feed them on your dreams
The one they pick's the one you'll know by"
To be completely honest, I do not like Rogan's podcast at all, and I'm kind of confused as to how he got so popular. The fact that he has guests on like Ben Shapiro/Jordan Peterson/Covid deniers etc does point to him engaging with a wide variety of ideas, and while I think that multiple perspectives are a good thing, I do wonder how much of a platform people, especially those spreading misinformation, should have? Joe Rogan has a huge audience, and I think that he should be way more responsible with the ideas that he chooses to promote. Should he not be allowed to have guests like Shapiro or Peterson just because I disagree with their stances? No, of course not-- though I think he should push back on some of their more inflammatory ideas much more than he does. However, I think when it comes to spreading active misinformation about Covid, the issue is more complicated. I think that when it comes to information that is false (especially when it's presented as 'scientific' advice during a pandemic), Spotify should be doing more to regulate this content. I'm all for free speech, but it is so frustrating to see huge content creators like this spreading a message that is harmful, and has real life effects on people who have to live with the consequences of people refusing to listen to the CDC and qualified professionals about vaccines and Covid protocol. It's not like Rogan is just a small podcast on Spotify-- he is their most popular podcaster and pulls in around 11 million listeners per episode. I don't know what should be done, but I hope that Rogan at least sees the backlash and takes away from it that he should be more responsible with who he platforms. Kind of like what Edan said, I think that podcasts that touch on Covid-19 should have a direct link to CDC approved information that comes up with the podcast, but I'm not sure how much that would really do (but it's a start).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/lisakim/2022/02/05/spotify-pulls-more-than-110-episodes-of-joe-rogans-podcast/?sh=44076d51539e
I'm not a huge Joe Rogan listener, but Joe is massive in the tech space, and many software engineers/people in tech or computer science listen to him. I think the underlying issue is interesting though. This situation draws some similarities to Trump and twitter, Trump used twitter to help facilitate a capitol insurrection, provide a platform for hate speech, etc. I think as of right now, Trump's Twitter is suspended. I think Rogan's should definitely be suspended from Spotify or at least fined/have some repercussions for the time being however. Spreading hate speech is one thing, but spreading misinformation and lies about a vaccine that everyone needs to take for us to get out of this pandemic is another. Many of Rogan's listeners are children, who pay attention to his message, or people at pivotal points in their life looking for guidance. These vulnerable demographics are highly susceptible to falling victim to this kind of misinformation, and with the kind of numbers that Rogan does, this is important to protect public health. Is this violating his freedom of speech? Spotify is a publicly traded company so I don't know how that plays into things, but this is a matter of public safety.
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