sources:
https://www.wsj.com/articles/two-foreign-born-men-who-helped-giuliani-on-ukraine-arrested-on-campaign-finance-charges-11570714188
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/10/10/us/politics/lev-parnas-igor-fruman-arrested-giuliani.html?action=click&module=Top%20Stories&pgtype=Homepage
Two of Giuliani’s associates, Lev Parnas and Igor Fruman, have been arrested last Wednesday over accusations that they had influenced US elections and politics with foreign money from an unnamed Ukrainian politicians. According to the indictment, the two men had lobbied a campaign towards ex Republican congressman Pete Sessions to remove the US ambassador Marie Yovanovitch from
Kyiv (Trump has already ordered her removal in May).US attorney Geoffrey Berman has stated that
the two are charged with conspiracy, falsification of records, and lying to the FEC about political donations (this included a $325k donation to support Trump through a limited liability company).
The article goes on to state that both Parnas and Fruman have assisted Giuliani, Trump’s private lawyer, in investigating Joe Biden’s son. Since 2018 the two men have introduced Giuliani to Ukrainian prosecutors to discuss the Biden case. In July, Mr. Giuliani along with Mr. Parnas and Kurt Volker (US special representative for Ukrainian negotiations) are said to have discuss investigating Mr. Biden along with the 2016 election. Trump has gone on to say that he has no recollection of the two gentlemen, although a since-deleted Facebook post has revealed that Parnas, Fruman, and
Trump had dinner at the White House in May 2018.
My two cents: As new developments arise regarding the Trump-Ukraine mess, it seems that the American public is becoming more attuned to the problem at hand. Even according to a Fox News poll, over 51% of Americans are in favor of not only impeaching Trump, but also removing him from office. With that being said I’m not entirely sure I want Trump to be removed from the white house. Impeached, sure, but Pence as president is not the ideal solution. It’ll be interesting to see where the narrative goes.
Questions:
Do you think that Giuliani will be indicted(accused) if more evidence shows that he was directly involved in the campaign scandal?
What are the implications of a potential impeachment of Trump Are you in favor of his removal as
well?
5 comments:
I think that Giuliani will definitely be accused if more evidence shows that he was directly involved in the campaign scandal. Rigged elections have recently been a hot topic in the news, especially because there seems to be some shady stuff going on around Trump and stuff. And even though I do not personally agree with Trump on the majority of things, I also don't want him removed from office simply because Pence wants to zap all the gays and I am very against that :)
It would be great if Trump was impeached and would be unable to run for office again since I think our nation needs a change from "his era" of presidents going against social norms and simply making terrible remarks that are inhumane and inconsiderate to the public eye. I think Rudy Guliani will get arrested from the interviews I have seen on CNN where he simply tries to make an argument in circles where he tries to explain that he is innocent (when really it makes him look even more guilty). I also agree that it would not be ideal to have Mike Pence take Trump's position if impeached, but hopefully, it will be at a time where there is only a very small amount of time left in the term where he cannot change much for the nation.
This new development in the Ukraine and Trump situation certain changes some views and involves more actors, like Giuliani and these two henchmen. It's likely, I think, that Giuliani will be indicted for involvement in a corrupt and illegal operation, like the article's mention of raising campaign funds that exceed the limit for a congressperson. However, it may not be likely that Giuliani is arrested, based on previous precedence with the Russia investigation. It's definitely telling of the current meta to actively hunt for dirt on the other side, which create the polarization we see
To push back on your suggestion that Trump not be impeached, I think impeachment is vital, for two reasons. First, it's not really about the actual change in leadership, it's about sending a message. It's true that Pence won't be much better than Trump, but that's not the point. If the GOP sees that their party figurehead is being held accountable by Congress, it could provide deterrence for future acts. Second, it has some positive immediate impacts - impeachment is a scar on the presidency that could tip the 2020 election towards the Democratic nominee. Yes, Trump's base of tin-foil hat radicals will turn out in higher numbers, but many independents that view politics neutrally can be pushed to vote liberal/democrat if impeachment is used against Trump in 2020.
Like Albert has said above, I do believe that Guiliani will be indicted because there are just too many connections to him and Parnas and Fruman for it to be just coincidence that he has absolutely no idea of what was happening to the situation. It does seem a bit fishy that they happened to be going to the same place as he was, Vienna, and for them to be working together without any contact or knowledge of what the other was doing. So, I think important information can be taken from indicting Guiliani. In regards to the impeachment of Trump, I do believe that the event would bring some hope for the future, as it may spark a change of unspoken rules that puts more control over the manipulation of the public, as right now there is very much manipulation in motion to win over the public. This change would hopefully bring back the political sphere away from polarization and toward progressive change instead of the constant mudslinging that is happening from both sides.
I agree with both Cameron and Albert regarding the fact that Guiliani while most likely be impeached, for the facts already known against him, as well as his faulty media interviews, have not worked in his favor. I also agree with Albert's point on the need for impeachment. Impeachment in the house would set the president regarding what is permitted by a president, as well as help Democrats in the upcoming presidential election—if impeachment proceedings are successfully in their favor. Nevertheless, it is highly unlikely that Trump will be taken out of office, for the senate is controlled by the republicans and no president in American history has ever been impeached out of office. In the off-case that Trump is impeached out of office by the 2020 election, the limited time Pence would have as presidency would make him practically powerless, thus the fear of turning America into an extremely conservative valued nation is somewhat irrational. The ideal outcome of a Trump impeachment would be a thorough and non-partisan impeachment inquiry, in which the American receive the clarity they deserve regarding the president of the United States.
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